Los Angeles Angels News: Playoff Analysis Beyond Emotion

by Rev Halofan on Oct 5, 2007 10:39 PM PDT in News Comment 50 comments

I will try to do what the allegedly non-fan objective baseball analyst types do. I will try to dissect this game without emotion. At the moment, I am emotionally spent, so this might be one of the few windows of opportunity for to ever try such a thing.

First
The ball that hit Vlad got away from Delcarmen. It was not intentional. Sure Vlad was pissed, but like so many of the Mickey Hatcher school, he sits on top of the plate and then is surprised when he gets hit. Figgins, Kendrick, they spent a lot of time on the DL this season because Hatcher has them on the plate. Vlad a few days and some diminished ability, but really, we would not get pitched inside as much if we were not on top of the plate. We would not, then of course, have a .284 team batting average, so the answer, once again, is to sacrifice batting average, back off the plate and have a masher who augments the offense with power.

Second
The fan who grabbed the ball was the dorkiest sweetcheeks closet case on the East Coast, but every fan on Earth has the right to dive for that ball and if I were sitting next to an Angels fan who did just that to an opposing catcher I would be buying him all the beers he wanted that night.

Third
We had ample opportunities to put this pathetic contest away. This game was gift-wrapped and handed to us numerous times and we resisted. The reason is the offense did not get the elusive "clutch" hit that we needed and the pitching staff did a fabulous Grant Ballfour imitation.

Fourth
It is either Mathis or Escobar, but it was pretty apparent by the fifth batter that the outside corner was a wasteland and that pitches to Righties there were not going to be called a strike. And yet one or both of these players insisted on placing the ball just there, time and time again. Escobar's voluminous walks to this team were as or more unclutch as/then the offense's lack of a breakthrough hit. Kelvim is a very good pitcher, but this season he took a step back from greatness with the walk totals - and sucking up a good walk IS the Red Sox game. The Mathis/Escobar battery played right into it.

Fifth
We are without our best defensive Centerfielder, our future-HOF Right Fielder can hardly field and then leaves the game early, our only middle of the order threat has PINK EYE and we rlied on Scot Shields to pitch two hitless innings. And with ALL THAT going against us, we got shutout on the road by the top Cy Young contender and then held Boston to a draw until the bottom of the 9th. A ragtag group of cripples did all that. This Red Sox team is just not that great. Be it Cleveland or, miraculously, us, they are not going anywhere.

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The point about the foul ball kid

that I think most of us were frustrated with had nothing to do with how we'd treat our own fan in the inverse situation. It was the INSTANT (and I mean that in the most literal possible way...it couldn't have been quicker) deification of him. He was thanked personally by Stephen King, signing autographs, given a standing ovation, and whisked away for interviews not FIVE minutes after it happened. There are stories on every major sports outlet about it as if it was the difference in the game. It's pathetic. And it's 100% Boston folklore bullshit. I would be sickened if Angels Stadium did likewise.

http://kotchatthebat.livejournal.com/

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Oct 5, 2007 10:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

We did not deify "Mini-Bartolo"

he did get a few posts of interest here on Halos Heaven, though.

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Oct 5, 2007 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

#5

I was really inspired seeing GA straining to see out of his nearly-shut eye. What a hero. That is going to be something I might never forget.

Anybody see the speed on the pitch that hit Vladdy? Velocity, I believe is the reason for Vladdy's glare. That thing was humming when it zeroed in on his back. I will not be surprised if he cannot play on Sunday.

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Oct 5, 2007 10:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If he can't stay

in tonight's game, given the circumstances and the adrenaline, he probably doesn't stand a chance of playing Sunday. It's only going to get more sore.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 5, 2007 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he should see improvement...

I am wondering why, though, it has lingered this long. He has a BAD case of pink eye. I have had it on a couple of occasions and it always improves after about 3 days. I am not sure what the heck is going on with GA, but it should have looked better by now. Weird case.

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Oct 5, 2007 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry...

I was referring to Vlad.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 5, 2007 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, I see your point...

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Oct 5, 2007 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LA Times is

reporting that, in addition to the pink eye, GA also has a sinus infection.

I've not had pink eye, but I've had a few sinus infections; they're a real bitch.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 5, 2007 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the fact that he still plays and actually

hits is pretty amazing. almost as much as lackey's strep throat shutout of the m's.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Oct 5, 2007 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree...

I wish he would get more respect around here. The guy's a professional.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 5, 2007 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

GA

I was thinking the same thing. GA is hitting with one eye, gets two hits and people still rag on him. It has been this way since he came up.

by tanana40 on Oct 6, 2007 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quite a few pitchers

have hit Vlad unintentionally. I don't think DelCarmen hit him on purpose.

But that's not the point. The point is that pitchers feel free to pitch inside to Vladi becaue their is absolutely no threat of retaliation (Scioscia and the Angels having long ago publicly stated that they don't play the game "that way"). If there were consequences to hitting Vlad, pitchers would be way more careful about how they pitched him, meaning he would a) get hit less and b) get more mistakes to hit.

One of two things must happen. The Angels must retaliate with pitches at Ortiz's knees (and start retaliating every time someone goes after Vlad intentionally or not). Or Vlad needs to charge the mound and make some fool pay.

The injury risk inherent in Vlad limping out to the mound is too high. Thus, the only answer is to take Ortiz's knees and/or Ramirez's head.

The current approach (NEVER retaliating) is a PROVEN failure.

Secondly, show me a hitter in the league that doesn't crowd the plate and I'll show you a guy headed back to the minors. It's how you hit a baseball effectively.

The Angels MUST take back the inner half of the plate. They've lost respect around the league. It's time to get it back.

Like it or not, this is how the game works.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 5, 2007 10:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree Retire4

In fact, I just published a diary to this effect. Right after submitting it I read this post of yours, and you are thinking much like I am on this issue of retaliation.

I think you and I see this as an issue of self defense as much or more than as issue of revenge.

As you say, it's about protecting our guys.

It seems the Angels are about the only team that doesn't subscribe to this philosophy.

I'd like to hear your comments on my diary "This Laying Down Has to End."

by Jack Frost on Oct 5, 2007 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problem is...

nothing in Manny's head to hurt!

I am with you 100%!

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Oct 5, 2007 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no way we give up at this point

Let's win game 3 then worry about game 4.

That being said, if we do get beat, and the Yanks get beat, I will then become the biggest Cleveland fan this side of the Great Lakes.

I hate the f'n Red Sox. (and Yankees ofcourse)

by thewebb on Oct 5, 2007 10:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Fuck that Beckett noise

Lackey is Cy Young, period.

Better ERA and he got cheated out of a win at the end of the season by a blown save in a one run game, that the Angels later won.

Factor that in, they're both 20 game winners, with Lackey winning ERA. Beckett can fuck himself.

Also, my adjusted W/L formula shows that Lackey's record was worsened by offensive performance in his starts, while Beckett's was, in fact, helped.

Beckett will win via the East Coast Bias, though.

http://kotchatthebat.livejournal.com/

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Oct 5, 2007 11:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I realize we're only allowed profanity.....

....laced tirades once a month. I'll be using mine now.

FUCK ME!

FUCK MIKE SCIOSCIA!

And most importantly, FUCK BILL STONEMAN!

First, Scioscia. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Mike apologist, I love the guy, and I've never said anything bad about him on this blog. But holy shit, what the hell is he doing? First of all, he should have used Rivera when they brought in the lefty in the fifth inning. But no, he doesn't do that, fine.

Fast-forward to the eighth inning. He decides to pinch-hit in the middle of an at bat. I've got no problem with that. But hello, Mike, we need a single, and you're going to use Willits anyway....let him bat!!!

Fast-forward to the ninth inning. Season on the line. He doesn't start the inning with his closer?! What the hell? You don't bring your closer in in the middle of the inning. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Start the inning with Frankie, he could have gone two. I'm not sure we would have ever scored anyway, but at least give us a chance, Mike.

Now for the guy I really hate. Bill Stoneman. God, I hate this guy.
Vlad is basically worthless in this lineup because he has absolutely no protection. Zero. None. His homerun figures are dropping, and that's because of no protection. Garett had a nice couple of months, but come on, who fears this guy? Ortiz has Manny, Vlad has...GA? Eat a dick, Stoneman. And our fifth hitter is a 140 pound jockey. Give me a break. Better yet, give me someone that can hit the ball deep. You suck butt, Stoneman.

Oh yeah, one last blast. I hope that kid that stole the ball from Mathis has one of two things happen to him: gangbang anal rapage on the way home, or severe and painful testicular cancer that leaves him a limp prick.

Have a nice night.

by bc56274 on Oct 5, 2007 11:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

awesome vent-o-rama...

you are crazy, bc.

BTW, by the looks of him, that kid might enjoy your "on the way home" prescription you gave above.

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Oct 5, 2007 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i have a man-crush on speier

but everything else you said is all warm and fuzzy. i particularly liked, "I hope that kid that stole the ball from Mathis has one of two things happen to him: gangbang anal rapage on the way home, or severe and painful testicular cancer that leaves him a limp prick" hahhah. PANTHA!!

Mickey Hatcher; why art thou the shittiest hitting coach ever eth?

by calikraze on Oct 5, 2007 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You should read how I got ripped

for saying noone FEARS GA in the BOTG blog... WOW and Whatever!

GA is not a #4 hitter and has not been for years! I guess you do have to blame BS for that!

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Oct 5, 2007 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't start the inning with his closer

What Scioscia was trying to do was keep Frankie's pitch count low enough in the 9th inning so that he could also pitch the 10th inning. Scioscia wanted to get more than one inning out of K-Rod. Not all of the moves a manager makes work. Scioscia and I were on the same page regarding Frankie's intentional walk to David Ortiz.

by Yetijuice on Oct 5, 2007 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the

Stoneman argument - maybe not to the eat a dick extreme but...I like Bill to a point. I've mentioned here in the past that I like him because you can't really dispute the rise of the franchise under him through building the farm system and pitching strength. I've also always been critical of his lack of balls to make a move for a power bat and that is what pisses me off - we may not NEED them for the regular season but IMO you do NEED them for the playoffs.

Need the split...

by gorams77 on Oct 6, 2007 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn...

it's a friggin' game. Wishing ill-will on a dumb kid is just uncalled for. Grow the f*** up.

Boy, this site has gone to the toilet with the new "fans"...

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Oct 6, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember my first beer

Pinch-hitting in the middle of an AB was A) weird enough to maybe get into young Papelbon's head, and B) led to a very positive outcome -- runners on second and third with our very best singles hitter up.
The relievers were all well-rested, and this was a game that could have easily gone to extra innings. Using up Speier after just his handful of pitches in the 8th & bringing Frankie in for the 9th could have easily led to the game being decided in the 10th or 11th with the crappy end of the bullpen. I think Scioscia played it perfectly; except it just didn't work.
Now for the guy I really hate. Bill Stoneman. God, I hate this guy. Vlad is basically worthless in this lineup.... Eat a dick, Stoneman. ... You suck butt, Stoneman.

You're just not very smart, are you?

4) Beter yet, give me someone that can hit the ball deep.

Agreed. I hear there's a good free agent 3Bman coming on the market.

5) gangbang anal rapage, etc.

If this were my site I'd ban you, and I never ban anyone. Try to have some fucking class; or, barring that, restraint.

by mattwelch on Oct 6, 2007 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

#5

THANK YOU matt....I'm glad to see that I am not the only one that thought that comment completely classless and worthy of a good old fashioned bar of soap.

That was a really stupid & disgusting comment.

by ladybug on Oct 6, 2007 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What an idiot

1st, Ortiz isn't great because of Manny, he's great because of Ortiz, great players are great players, regardless of who else is on their team.

2nd, Vladdy's HR's are going down not because of GA, but because of Vladdy. He swings at every freakin' pitch. Even boob-heads like you know that most HR's are hit on 2-0 and 3-1 'cripples'. Vladdy never gives himself a shot to be 2-0 or 3-1, because he'd rather try to hit balls that are 3 feet outside for homers, than balls that are laid right in there when the pitcher is on the ropes.

3rd, Vladyy is great in his own right, and needs no help from anybody.

4th, while Stoneman might not be your cup of tea, this team has never been better...I guess you'd rather go to the Post, Walsh, Bavasi, or Brown days. The Montefusco, Conigliaro, Leo Cardenas, Tony Gonzales,Vada Pinson, George Hendrick, Dave Parker, Doug Corbett....how much longer do you want the list...all over the hill stiffs we got to watch 'play' for us, while Bichette, Remy, Brunansky and others made careers for other teams.

5th...just shut up.

by statlr on Oct 6, 2007 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

see, that's where you're mistaken.

ortiz sure wasn't that great in minnesota. but he goes to boston and all of sudden does what he's never done before: hits 30+ homers and keeps it up. yeah, it doesn't matter who's on your team.
vlad's hr totals went down because he hasn't had as many at-bats as before, has been injured, has been walked more than ever, more than anyone, and has no protection. and you are truly dumb if you think vlad's totals went down because of the counts. vlad isn't like most hitters, vlad is known for his bad-ball hitting skills, counts mean nothing to him.
refer to above, protection would do wonders for vlad.
i agree with you, stoneman may not be the best but he's certainly not the worst.
yesterday was a bad time with bad feelings filled with bad thoughts. #5 was just a all of that collectively formed.

lastly, i think it's pretty hypocritical of you to call anyone an "idiot". and if anything i've stated is wrong, then i'm also an idiot.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Oct 6, 2007 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

mike scioscia's big mistake

wasnt during the game tonight. it was all last week when he didn't go for the best record in baseball. imagine playing the Yankees at home instead of the ugly red sox at fenway. he should have done everything in his power to get the preferable match up. yea its hard to say at the time but hindsight makes it clear that he obviously made the wrong decision

by UCIHalo on Oct 5, 2007 11:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it is a good thing he rested the regulars...

it is paying LOADS of dividends right now.

Quit yer whinin' and START CHEERING!

by Downing Rules on Oct 5, 2007 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yups

Agreed

Need the split...

by gorams77 on Oct 6, 2007 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a very dark night...

The main thing that jumps out is the same old lack of offense. That old chestnut has reared its ugly head once again. But the proof is in the pudding.

In 18 innings, we have scored runs in one of them. We're not putting up much of a fight. How many times did we have chances tonight to simply take this game home with us? And yet we looked anemic out there time and again. Depressing.

I know i was very bitter at this time last October, us missing the playoffs and all, and my arguments for a productive power hitter, a real run producer, were bashed by enough folks here to make me clam up.

After tonight does it even need to be brought up?

Power does so many things for your club. Look at these two games. Ortiz has hit how many HR's against us this year? His shot last night decimated us. Tonight it appeared that we FINALLY learned the lesson to walk Ortiz, and look what Manny does. BOOM. Out go the lights.

Funny, I haven't heard anyone tonight say anything about Ramirez like "that's Manny being Manny". We could've got that guy off the waiver wire a few years ago. One of the greatest hitters of this time. But I guess he's not a character guy, so...

Look at all the kids we're playing. And they didn't do much of anything. And Izzy hitting fifth is just astounding. And this lineup will have to beat Becket, if we can manage to win a single game first. And yet I will not give up; my heart aches and my brain burns, but I will not give up until we're officially done.

It seems when Vlad was hit that Boston feels entitled to do whatever they want with zero worry of repurcussions. I'm sorry, but we simply cannot continue to puss out like this. The next time Ortiz steps up to the plate he needs to be hit in the back. With Jared being on the mound this will undoubtedly be relayed as revenge for Ortiz showboating on his HR off Weaver last month.

So what?

We really could've used Gary Mathews in this series. His athleticism could have made some things happen. And Juan Rivera had an extremely gritty AB tonight; I'd like to see him get a shot Sunday.

Can we find a way to win Sunday? Just start with Sunday...

by goodvibe61 on Oct 5, 2007 11:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i just saw a clip of that little shit

who robbed mathis. and now i understand all your anger. i hope everything you've said about him happens. ungrateful little fuck shit had his tongue out and the fucking boston shits around treating him like he hit a fucking walk off. i now officially hate everything about boston. my anger ceases to go away. just damn.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Oct 5, 2007 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Welll...

Nobody would have been questioning resting the regulars if they came out on fire. Mike Scioscia made the best moves he could. The only things I agree with are that he should have just let Willits bat. And I think maybe we should have seen a little Darren Oliver out there. We didn't need to take the risks that were involved with leaving Shields out there so long.

The game was very close and with just one or two thing had gone our way, The Angels could have won. Boston got a huge break from that sucky fan. Boston got a huge break from that bad running play by G.A. And had Frankie walked Ortiz, he might have had better luck against Youkilis.

by Jay Cal on Oct 6, 2007 8:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

GA's bad baserunning...

played no role. In fact, it can be argued that it was somewhat beneficial.

Had GA not brain-farted there, Lugo would have thrown Izzy out at first. The result, of course, would have been man on second with one out.

And that's exactly what the situation was after Izzy then stole second. Instead of one out with GA at second, the Angels had one out with Izzy at second, the far faster runner.

Even though it was a bone-headed play, it really didn't hurt the Angels at all and had absolutely nothing to do with the game's outcome.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 6, 2007 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a little confused...

Frankie DID walk Ortiz, right after he STRUCK OUT Youkilis.

Why Isn't 4 On The Wall?

by Retire4 on Oct 6, 2007 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Opportunity after opportunity after

There are more but:

1st - GA clutch single to RF; Iztu called out on K's w/ 1st / 3rd....Opportunity LOST

1st Youk was K'd looking, called ball 4

2nd CK clutch leadoff bb, KMo clutch 1b; Mora; HK down on 3 swings at breaking balls; Scioscia hit/run Mathis FC RBI and KMo to 2b; Figgy& OCab CLUTCH 2 out RBI hits; Vlad weak grounder to 2b.

2nd: Kelvim = NAILS

3rd: GA dumps one to RF for 2b; GA pulls BONER and gets thrown out at 3b on grounder to SS (if you claim to lead by example then what the hell is this other than demoralizing?); Iztu steals 2b; KMo hits one to the track in RF - just missed DAMNIT! Opportunity LOST

3rd: Kelvim = Nails w/a bb to Ortiz mixed in.

4th: HK clutch leadoff 1b; Mathis/Figgy/OCab not so much.

5th: Iztu 1 out hit, steals 2b, goes to 3b on WP, stranded! Opportunity LOST

All I have time for....but I do DISAGREE with you that Vlad was not hit intentionally. That WAS intentional and we need to regain the inside of the plate for the rest of the series! One or both of their big boppers needs to go down with whatever injury is incurred by an errant up/in fastball. We don't stand any closer to the plate than any other teams! It is simply strategy to get our free swingers out by pitching them inside! One answer is to stop swinging at those inside (off the plate) pitches!

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Oct 6, 2007 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

not so...

in the 1st: can't really blame blue on that one call because he was inconsistent and horrible throughout the game. his check swing calls cause me to believe he's an arrogant asshole who believes he's the only umpire calling the game.

in the 3rd: yeah it was an opportunity lost but not because of GA.

in the 5th: izzy got the hit w/ 2 outs so you can't really blame anyone.

i must be nuts because from the 1st to the 9th opportunities we're absent except for the 3rd.

Mickey Hatcher; why art thou the shittiest hitting coach ever eth?

by calikraze on Oct 6, 2007 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All of the above are valuable comments, but

I think the reason we EVENTUALLY lost is clearly Frankie. He is NOT the closer he has been the past few years by a margin. We all know how he has become the "cardiac closer". He has more blown saves than ever before, and at least 10 of his saves were nailbiters. He is no longer feared in the league, and certainly not by Ortiz or Manny. Isn't it odd that Stonehead re-signed Shields for 4 years and hasn't yet re-signed Francisco???

by SocalAngelFaninOC on Oct 6, 2007 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's not over people

The most valuable commodity we have left right now is Mike Scioscia's philosophy of taking it one game at a time.

Is there any reason whatsoever, that by taking it one game at a time, Jered Weaver cannot defeat the chowds tomorrow? Of course not! By the same token, we can win Game 4 at home as well behind Lackey, but that is looking too far ahead.

What does the fact that we haven't won a game in the playoffs against Boston since 1986 mean right now? Absolutely fuck all, that's what.

And what does the fact that we are down 0-2 in a 5-game series mean right now? Beyond the fact that one more loss ends our season, again -- absolutely fuck all.

If we look at Sunday's game as a game of baseball in which the better team wins, then I think we win that game behind Weaver. And after that, we'll all be in better moods come Monday.

RAT ATTACK!

Don't call me Desmond

by highlandhalo on Oct 6, 2007 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rev

I'm proud of you....EXCELLENT calm, rational and non-emotional post and spot on. I agree with everything and that doesn't happen too often!

That dumb kid did nothing wrong; as whoever stated it was the instant worship like he pulled off the greatest fan interference in history. He simply caught a foul ball that Mathis could have had. If it was Naps, he would have sat on the kid and squished him. It's a non-issue.

by ladybug on Oct 6, 2007 11:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If it was Napoli, that kid would still be

at the hospital having Nap's glove surgicaly removed from his face.

by 44FAN on Oct 6, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Naps is a reincarnation of Scioscia. Mathis needs to absorb some of that killer instinct.

by ladybug on Oct 6, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the w/l stat

why does speier get the loss? frankie was the one who got served and gave up the homer. we automatically lose with the homer that frankie gave up. does this stat make any sense, seriously?

Mickey Hatcher; why art thou the shittiest hitting coach ever eth?

by calikraze on Oct 6, 2007 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs