Snag in Cabrera Talks, per LA Times

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 27, 2007 5:08 AM PST

Mike DiGiovanna's latest:

"The Angels also continue to pursue power-hitting third baseman Miguel Cabrera, but trade talks with Florida appear to have hit a snag over the combination of players the Marlins are seeking for the 24-year-old slugger.

The Angels, according to baseball sources, are willing to part with just about any player who has been mentioned in trade rumors -- second baseman Howie Kendrick, catcher Jeff Mathis, pitchers Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders or Nick Adenhart, outfielder Reggie Willits and perhaps top infield prospect Brandon Wood.

But if the Angels are going to trade two young pitchers to the Marlins, they are reluctant to include Kendrick and Mathis in a package for Cabrera, who has averaged 31 home runs and 115 runs batted in for the last four seasons.

And if they have to give up Kendrick, whom many project as a .320 hitter with 25-homer potential, along with a young pitcher or two, they are reluctant to part with one of their top two prospects, Adenhart or Wood.

Unless the Marlins, who want three or four top young players, are willing to make some kind of concession, the Angels may not be able to land Cabrera, an impact player who would give the Angels a solid one-two punch with Vladimir Guerrero.
"

This Fan-Post is authored by an independent fan and may or may not be a reflection of human evolution, divine enlightenment or nine cans into a 12-pack.

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Here's the link

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels27nov27,1,2306416.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 27, 2007 5:49 AM PST 0 recs

Thanks Limey

New to this stuff.

I agree, I want Cabrera but I'm not in favor of the "pay any price to get him philosophy".

On a side note, I'm surprised at how willing the Angels seems to be to part with Kendrick, and that other players are the snags rather than him.

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 27, 2007 7:14 AM PST up 0 recs

My pleasure

I'm not so wedded to having HK that I can't see the benefits of having a 24 year old solid gold Masher (with a capital M) in the team. But if we are going to lose Howie, I reserve the right to sulk, drink heavily and be generally objectionable for a week or two (maybe 3) - Howie Kendrick will be the best second baseman in the major leagues within 2 years and I'd rather he was our second baseman.

And if we have to give up HK + 3 players with genuine a-grade talent, Tony will have his Ninja status revoked, and I will personally be flying over, sticking him in a sack and locking him in the Tower (that's the Tower of London, for all you ex-colonial types, btw).

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 27, 2007 8:16 AM PST up 0 recs

possible trade (per Florida newspaper)

I don't know how to do the link (I should really have learned by now), but here it is:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/baseball/marlins/sfl-flspmarlins26sbnov26,0,6179265.story

The South Florida Sun Sentinel is predicting Kendrick, Mathis, Willits, and one pitcher (Santana, Saunders, or Adenhart). It claims that the Marlins would prefer Adenhart because of his lack of service time.

Trading Adenhart would not make as much sense to me as trading Santana or Saunders, for obvious reasons. This would allow us to keep B. Wood in the system though....

by DChalofan on Nov 27, 2007 6:04 AM PST 0 recs

Then it's

got to be true.........

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Nov 27, 2007 6:36 AM PST 0 recs

I like the news behind the Times article

...even if it's entirely to be expected: Despite his apparently free-wheeling style, Reagins isn't going to be bent over, for Larry to have his wicked way with him, in order to get Cabrera.

There's got to be a fair exchange, a trade, a negotiation - and the Marlins just insisting that they have every young player fit to lace his boots, is not a negotiation or a realistic proposition.

Make it fair and equitable, then we can talk business.

This is probably one occassion that the Dodgers are doing us a favour - they're also reluctant to gut the farm, which strengthens our negotiating position.

I see red people

by The Limey on Nov 27, 2007 6:53 AM PST 0 recs

Great News

Reagins don't sell out -- it's not worth it!

I'm convinced that over 95% of people's mistakes and confusion are caused by people NOT READING things.

by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Nov 27, 2007 7:22 AM PST 0 recs

We can always get Tejada...

for a LOT less. Granted he's not the same impact bat. But, it's an upgrade nonetheless.

by 10 27 02 on Nov 27, 2007 7:28 AM PST 0 recs

exactly...

Tejada obviously doesn't mash like Cabrera, but considering the defensive upgrade, which should be a given considering Tejada is a natural shortstop and Cabrera is one of the worst defenders in the game, plus keeping Kendrick in the fold, its a no brainer to me. For total value to the team, Tejada + Kendrick > Cabrera + Figgins.

by dmhead on Nov 27, 2007 10:13 AM PST up 0 recs

Get Tejada

And we should have enough left on the farm to get Johan Santana too.

Reagins on a return to Fenway: "Mr. Henry, tear down this wall!"

by RallyMonkey5 on Nov 27, 2007 8:04 AM PST 0 recs

Ninja is just negotiating

This is the usual negotiation process. You don't just give in at the first offer. When the Marlins look around and see that no one is offering anything close to what the Angels are, then they will talk turkey.

Also, did anyone read about how Colletti is saying he doesn't want to give up his prospects at all this winter (also in the LA Times; maybe someone more experienced can post the link).

I predict we will have Cabrera by the end of the winter meetings.

Vladdy + MCab > Manny + Big Papi

by halofan91 on Nov 27, 2007 8:06 AM PST 0 recs

steep

2 pitchers + kendrick and mathis is steep. i think we would obviously like to deal a one pitcher and one outfielder as they are the two surpluses we have.

i think if its two pitchers, the package should not include wood or mathis. Howie, Saunders and Adenhart. Theres 3 players. You get 4 players with 1 pitcher or 3 players with 2. Dont let them dictate. They HAVE to get rid of him, we dont have to get rid of our guys.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 27, 2007 8:21 AM PST 0 recs

Why

Don't the Marlins want Reggie Willits?? They have NO centerfielder, play in a giant ballpark, and can use Willits' ability to get on base and run. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF?

Read my bullshit at http://mvn.com/mlb-source/author/seth.keichline/

by Ty Webb on Nov 27, 2007 8:46 AM PST 0 recs

Furthermore....

DAMNIT I'M FRUSTRATED NOW!

Howie, Saunders (less service time than Ervin - picky-ass Marlins), Mathis, Wood or Adenhart and Willits.

Fuck, even take Nick Green, or Steve Shell, or FUCKING SOMETHING. They're not going to get a bigger haul than this since the Dodgers have smarted up. Fucking Fish.

Read my bullshit at http://mvn.com/mlb-source/author/seth.keichline/

by Ty Webb on Nov 27, 2007 8:47 AM PST up 0 recs

WAY too steep

People underestimate Howie's value. He's no longer "Blue Sky". He is a .320 big league hitter (WITH UPSIDE) and young and cheap.

Four solid players/prospects for one tubby all-star is piss poor risk management.

I'd love to get Miggy's bat, but that's really the Marlin's problem.

by The Clyde on Nov 27, 2007 8:51 AM PST 0 recs

I like MCab; I want MCab; The Angels NEED MCab

But not at the price the Marlins are asking.

I mean, I can see HK, Mathis and a pitcher. Heck, throw in Willits.

But 2 pitchers, Mathis and HK? Cmon now

"And the Anaheim Angels are the Champions of Baseball!"

by Grichfan on Nov 27, 2007 9:09 AM PST 0 recs

I think I agree

I'm cool with sending Mathis (because we'd have Napoli and Buddie), Willits (because we'd have a deep outfield), Aybar, and Saunders.

That's a wealth of talent. Now give us our M-Cab.

by Jay Cal on Nov 27, 2007 9:17 AM PST up 0 recs

no offense

but thats probably the weakest package we could imagine, let alone expect them not to throw back in our face.

If Willits and Mathis are 2 of the 4 players involved, the other 2 are going to have to be very strong prospects since mathis and willits are far from potential impact players. Theyre more position fillers. Youve got to give up something good to get something good.

Just to put this all in perspective so people know who we could be potentially getting in this trade, baseball reference's most similar player through age 24 to miguel cabrera is HANK AARON.

That said, i think 2 pitchers + HK + Mathis is still a shitload of talent for minimum 2 years.

by ihearhowie2.0 on Nov 27, 2007 9:24 AM PST up 0 recs

I just hate the idea of that package.

Yeah... you're probably right. I understand that the Marlins are looking for cheap/good talent.

But I'd really hate to see Kendrix go. And if we're going to package up Kendrix, lets not give up the farm.

by Jay Cal on Nov 27, 2007 9:45 AM PST up 0 recs

Any deal with Howie...

Won't be a four player deal (at least not four players you've heard of)

by The Clyde on Nov 27, 2007 9:21 AM PST 0 recs

Hahaha

I have no idea why, but that comment really made me laugh.

I'll give up Howie, Mathis, Willits, and Saunders. Take it or leave it, Florida.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 27, 2007 9:32 AM PST up 0 recs

Mostly

the comment is backing up Howie's value. If Howie goes, he don't think he goes with 3 other big leaguers.

If anything happens at all, it will be a trade that knowbody has mentioned

by The Clyde on Nov 27, 2007 9:59 AM PST up 0 recs

Reagins needs to start floating rumors...

...that he's in discussions with the Orioles for Tejada. Maybe that will motivate the Fish to move on what is going to be a very good package of players, no matter what the combination turns out to be.

The Fish definitley want to get something for Cabrera while they can, and the Angels seem to have the best pieces.

by Ajax on Nov 27, 2007 10:11 AM PST 0 recs

It appears

The Angels are motivated to have this resolved, one way or another, before the Meetings next week. That suggests to me that they have other deals (backup or additional) in the pipeline.

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 27, 2007 10:12 AM PST 0 recs

It also appears

The Marlins are trying to test the mettle of a brand new GM. Kudos to Reagins for not giving in to unreasonable demands.

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 27, 2007 10:14 AM PST 0 recs

yea

it's totally unreasonable for the Marlins to ask for Mathis, a 24 year old in a 2 year rut, Howie Kendrick who should be a very good 2b, Reggie Willits, a nice player but bleh and Nick Adenhart, a prospect in AA who could be good, or could flame out for one of the top 5 hitters in baseball

what are they thinking!

by The Halowed One on Nov 27, 2007 11:23 AM PST up 0 recs

I'm on the fence

I keep thinking I don't want to see Kendrick go, but man whom wouldn't want Miggy batting behind Vlad. I'm glad I don't make these decisions.

by Jay Cal on Nov 27, 2007 11:47 AM PST 0 recs

It's not unreasonable for the Marlins to ask for

Howie + 3 others -

IMO - it's unreasonable for those 3 others to include an ML pitcher (Saunders/Santana) AND our best pitching prospect in Adenhart.

Hey, give them HK + 4 others - (Mathis, Willits, Saunders/Santana/Adenhart, Wood).

The Marlins want young, cheap guys with no service time - There you go.

But asking for ALL of the aforementioned players (subbing out 1 pitcher) is too much because it hamstrings our current and future rotation.

And if the Marlins continue to ask for that pkg, TReag should tell them to sit and rotate.

"And the Anaheim Angels are the Champions of Baseball!"

by Grichfan on Nov 27, 2007 11:47 AM PST 0 recs

it's damn near unreasonable.

they gave up josh beckett, mike lowell, and guillermo mota for anibal sanchez, hanley ramirez, jesus delgado, and harvey garcia, all of whom were unproven.

we have kendrick and saunders in the package, both proven, young, and cheap. throw in mathis and/or willits and that should be enough. that's the most they'll get short of lincecum from the giants. and that's not gonna happen.

same with the dodgers. i don't think they're gonna trade away their future, both the la times and the register had stories today about the dodgers youth movement. they're not anywhere near contention with their staff so they really don't have that "win now" mentality.

i think the fish should be damn grateful for a package like the one the angels are offering. you get a future batting champion, a solid #3 starter, a nice defensive catcher, and an on base machine. all major league proven and cheap.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Nov 27, 2007 12:52 PM PST 0 recs

with all due respect

Hanley was a huge prospect... yea, some were down on him but he was huge. Same can be said for Anibal Sanchez. Those 2 other arms should reach the majors too.. and dont forget, Lowell was coming off an absolutely terrible year, as was Mota (not nearly as bad but he had his second 4.50+era with the marlins in 2 years)

this is Miguel Cabrera we are talking about here... they can ask for whatever they want... they dont have to move him... they have his rights for 2 more years... if they dont get something they like in the winter, they can wait till the trade deadline if they want

"the marlins should be grateful".... Kendrick is major league proven. Willits had an abysmal post all star break this year, and OPSd .735. What the hell has Mathis proven? That he can't hit his weight in the majors? I assume the other proven guy you mean is Ervin Santana. Again, what has he proven? That he's a #4 starter?

by The Halowed One on Nov 27, 2007 1:05 PM PST up 0 recs

i was referring to saunders.

yeah, they can ask for whoever they want, we just don't have to answer.

"this is Miguel Cabrera we are talking about here..." - m-cab isn't God. i don't give a shit who we're talking about, if the price is unreasonable, it's unreasonable.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Nov 27, 2007 1:09 PM PST up 0 recs

checkin in on Cabs comps

he's pretty damn close to god

by The Halowed One on Nov 27, 2007 2:15 PM PST up 0 recs

Looks like the Dodgers aren't a factor for Cabrera

Ned Colletti:

"So I think we're in a decent spot that if there's something we can't walk away from, we'll go for it -- but I'm not in the market to trade three or four or five very good young players for one player."

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/touchingbase/2007/11/nine-innings-dodgers-gm-ned-co.html

by ghostofwallyjoyner on Nov 27, 2007 3:07 PM PST 0 recs