Scott Rolen

by 1000steps on Dec 6, 2007 5:42 PM PST

With the constant trouble w/LaRussa and Rolen and our overwhelming need for a 3b we need to approach the Cardinals who have been good trade partners in the past. I'd be willing to give up Santana, Adenhardt and Willits for Rolen in a second. The Cardinals are in need of pitching and that would fill their need.

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That might be a little much...

For a guy that has been healthy in only one of the last 3 years. Not to mention he's still carrying 3 more years on his contract at $12M/per. They'd have to be willing to eat a significant amount of $$ for that to be equitable. My 2 cents.

by onthevirg on Dec 6, 2007 5:31 PM PST reply actions

A one for one

deal maybe. 12 mil is not that much nowadays. If we did trade for him, I would want to trade GA. Rolen would make a nice DH as well.

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Dec 6, 2007 5:33 PM PST reply actions

No

Way past his prime, career OPS+ of 126 which is decent but has been declining in recent years(aside from abnormally high 157 in 2004), barely hits for average, and no power. (Source: http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rolensc01.shtml) He is DEFINITELY not worth Adenhart or even Willits, let alone Santana.

No thank you.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Dec 6, 2007 5:33 PM PST reply actions

Listen

We need a 3B, he is a perennial AllStar and, yes he's in on the downside v. upside. That said, I would give up Santana and Willits (probably went too far with Adenhardt). We will not win the WS or compete with a revolving door of Figgins, Aybar, etc. rolling around ss and 3rd. We need a potential 20+ HR guy w/ 85+ RBI's. Rolen can give us that.

by 1000steps on Dec 6, 2007 5:42 PM PST up reply actions

Shit on a Shingle

Rolen is finished. I'd give up Willits for him, but that's it. I doubt he ever hits 20 HR again.

by jjackflash on Dec 6, 2007 5:46 PM PST up reply actions

So can

Dallas McPherson. He is 5 years younger than Rolen and has posted an OPS+ of 96 in 340 ABs (less than a full season) WHILE INJURED.

He's no Miguel Cabrera, or even Miguel Tejada, to be sure, but I'd sure like to give him a chance over trading what looks to be a solid pitcher and a solid 4th OF for someone who's way on the decline.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Dec 6, 2007 5:59 PM PST up reply actions

thats too much to give up for rolen

Rolen last year has an OPS+ of 89 so I hope we wouldn't be willing to give up everything we were going to give up for M-cab except for Kendrick.

Adenhart is our top pitching prospect and its to early to give up on Santana, especially for Rolen.

Maybe Adenhart and Willits for Rolen or just Santana for Rolen.

by BoulderBrian on Dec 6, 2007 5:35 PM PST reply actions

ROLEN is too old and HE is too expensive

$36 million... for what?

Imagine one season of Figgins tiding over the 3-sack and then Brandon Woods hitting 30 bombs in '09 and '10 and we get more than Rolen's prouction for less than $6 million over the 3 years and use the $30 million to re-up Frankie for a few years.

Not to mention the possibility of Dallas McPherson finally showing up healthy and swinging!

by Rev Halofan on Dec 6, 2007 5:45 PM PST reply actions

Darn it

It's WOOD not Woods.

Sorry, as someone who gets this a lot I had to say something. Carry on.

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Dec 6, 2007 6:00 PM PST up reply actions

Too much to give up!

Stop swinging at balls out of the zone!

by K3YEROUT on Dec 6, 2007 5:50 PM PST reply actions

The Brewers

have some stud pitchers at their AAA level. I wonder if they would make a trade for Rivera or Morales. It would be nice to replenish our farm with pitchers.

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Dec 6, 2007 6:11 PM PST reply actions

How about

Trading one of the two for a studly young outfield bat? Or a young 2b prospect?

For that matter, what about going all out for Prince Fielder? Pipe dream and we've got Kotchman, sure, but can't one of the two play third as well?

Light Up That Halo!

by Clutch on Dec 6, 2007 6:14 PM PST up reply actions

no way i do this.

not now, not ever. never.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Dec 6, 2007 7:14 PM PST reply actions

You're high

Never, ever, EVER would I do this. Scott Rolen was a fine talent 2 to 3 years ago but injuries to his shoulder have taken their toll. Plus I don't like his salary.

In 2006, he had decent numbers. I think those numbers could help us. But last years numbers, and 2005's numbers are reason enough for me to say no thanks. Damn... 12 million for unknown stats... just can't do it.

by matt92130 on Dec 6, 2007 8:05 PM PST reply actions

Way too much

For every reason already stated + Rolen and the Cards/LaRussa aren't on good terms. So IF (and I would use this around plan Q on the A-Z scale) you trade for him you may be able to get him on the cheap because they may need to unload him...

Wanted: Any position player with power

by gorams77 on Dec 6, 2007 8:21 PM PST reply actions

We've got 2 million 3rd basemen as it is......

Stay on the damn bag!!

by higdog on Dec 6, 2007 8:28 PM PST reply actions

Is that right?

Name a few?

Figgins, Aybar, Izturis don't count, because combined they'll hit 20 HR's and 100 RBI's

Who are they again?

by 1000steps on Dec 6, 2007 8:55 PM PST up reply actions

Just stop, please

What point are you trying to make?

Yeah, congrats. You found out our third base situation isn't as good as the Yankees with A-Rod.

They also don't have a pitching staff that matches our's.

They're not as good as Miguel Cabrera?

Detroit doesn't have a bullpen or rotation that matches our's.

Not as good as Casey Blake?

Cleveland's outfield isn't as good as Vlad/Hunter/GMJ/Anderson. No where near.

But I'll be damned. One of 9 starting positions on the field, we don't match up. We might as well contract the freakin' franchise.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 6, 2007 9:02 PM PST up reply actions

Well...

I agree with your sentiment, but...

Detroit has a pretty nice rotation - Verlander, Bonderman, Rogers, Willis and Robertson. That is a nice 1-5.

Their bullpen, if healthy isn't too shabby either - but a notch below the Halos IF Shields and Speier continue to produce.

Grady Sizemore is a pretty damn good CF'er in Cleveland too. Trot Nixon is better than GA, but both have injury concerns. Vlad is a much better player than Jason Michaels or whoever their third outfielder is - but the other two positions are a push, I think.

Overall, point taken. Positional analysis is fine and dandy, but in the end the team is what matters. If the Halos don't get traditional bashing from 3rd base but get good production from Napoli and Kendrick, its a push.

But, count me in on the D-Mac bandwagon. I have loved him since his monster 2003 in the minors and now that he is healthy I am totally willing to see what he can do. I'd go so far as to say the position is his and he gets 400 AB's to see what he's got. At that point if he isn't producing, make a change, but I hope he is given a legit shot at the job and left alone to get comfortable and see what he's got to offer. He is young enough that he could be serviceable for 3-5 years at a fairly good price for half of that time.

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Dec 6, 2007 9:48 PM PST up reply actions

Detroit rotation is a ton of ???

first of all, last year it was ranked 18th in baseball (I think) in ERA. The only thing added was Willis, who was lit up in the NL East last year. God knows what'll happen in the freakin' AL Central this year.

Verlander - a given. an ace.
Bonderman - tons of talent, yet he's never done shit with it. career numbers speak volumes.
Rogers - the arm will fall off soon enough, and he already has injury concerns. also played over his head for a couple years lately.
Robertson - junk. no reason to think he'll be much
Willis - a toss up.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 6, 2007 10:00 PM PST up reply actions

Staff

Verlander - as you mention he is the LEGIT ACE
Bonderman- Tons of talent- hard to say he has never done shit with that talent though. Kid is 9 games over .500 in the last 3 years and 7 over the last 4. He has played on some really bad clubs and his first year #'s are not even worth mentioning when you consider he was promoted at 20 years old to the bigs after one season of 157 innings pitched in pro ball. Bonderman has a 200 K season as well. His career is far from shit.

Rogers - Being 43 there is a chance for a lot of things to happen but the bottom line he has always been a work horse and knows how to win. Should he stay healthy there is no reason to think he will not once again have a winning record. Hard to play over your head (67 games over .500 lifetime) when you have had 12 winning seasons over the last 15 years.

Robertson - He has a good fastball that is in the low 90s most of the time. His slider is another pitch he throws with good velocity. It is an above-average major league pitch and makes him capable of getting right handed hitters out on a consistent basis. He has 4 pitches he throws for strikes and can get the K when he needs it. What he struggles with is finishing. He starts out good in many games, but then can wear down during the later innings. With the current line up he has behind him he will be fine.

Willis - Makes the rotation much better then they were before they got him. Lot of hitters yet to see the whiffle ball windup. Mark him down for 200 innings and a record above .500

by Angel Aviator on Dec 7, 2007 8:29 PM PST up reply actions

fact still is outside

of verlander, their pitching staff is average, at best. i'd be surprised if willis makes them better. please stop trying to make their pitching sound legit because it isn't.

"it's mind-bottling."

by retrohalo on Dec 8, 2007 12:13 AM PST up reply actions

Too many of these conclusions

come from the run support the starters will get, and less about what the pitchers can do. Yes, Willis has a good shot at being .500+...but not because he's going to be a good pitcher this year. Same with what you said about Robertson. I don't care how many major league pitches he has, if the end result is being consistently below 100 ERA+...which he is.

And on that note, I don't care about Bonderman's W/L record either. His career ERA+ is a well-below-average 93. He has ONE season where it wasn't below average. He has "stuff"...but that's really it. The results, outside of W/L, don't side with him at all. And W/L is a TERRIBLE gauge of how good a pitche ris.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 8, 2007 9:34 PM PST up reply actions

It isn't THAT

bad...

With that offense all they need to do is put up 180-200 innings of 4.5 ERA and they will all win a ton of games. Verlander, Bonderman and Rogers are going to do that with Robertson and Willis within a half run of that. I expect them to win 100 games - they are going to score a crap-load of runs....

Jimmuscomp

Haloville- Land of the Angels
Homepage

by jimmuscomp on Dec 6, 2007 10:18 PM PST reply actions

If we're going to make a trade for 3rd

Isn't Inge a lot better fit that Rollen?

by Jay Cal on Dec 7, 2007 9:25 AM PST reply actions

Inge

sucks.

by Caseys Kiss of Death on Dec 7, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions

Rolen sucks. No.

Um.........

by hauldog on Dec 7, 2007 1:43 PM PST reply actions

"Sucks" as compared to...?

The current 3B depth chart?
- Figgins
- McPherson
- Izturis

As bad as Rolen's injury-laden 2007 campaign was, he was at least as productive as anything we have there, and out-homered all 3 combined. Not to mention having GG-standard defense.

by Stirrups on Dec 7, 2007 3:01 PM PST up reply actions