NY POST: Yanks After Shea Hillenbrand

Do it!

by Sweetmeats on Jun 18, 2007 9:06 AM PDT reply actions

Whoa.. I just read about it this morning

and before I could pee it's up on HH. He's been a respectable hitter lately but given his lack of power this season there's little reason to justify keeping him. Hopefully GA will stop trying to play outfield so that he can get healthy ABs.

by melvintoast on Jun 18, 2007 9:18 AM PDT reply actions

Two problems

Who DHs while G.A.'s hurt (which could be the rest of the year)?
What do they have that we want?

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 9:30 AM PDT reply actions

A Hot Dog

and possibly a bag of peanuts, if we negotiate really well.

5,444.82 miles from Home Plate

by UK Halo on Jun 18, 2007 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions

oh, come on

we could at least get a season 7 Seinfeld DVD

I still want to DFA Hillenbrand

by Hutch (someone took my name) on Jun 18, 2007 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions

Throw in a "Diff'rent Strokes" DVD

and it's a deal! Gotta have those "Whachu'-talkin'-bout-Willis" good vibes in the clubhouse. And the Angels can watch the DVDs on a big screen from Howard's.

"APPLIANCES!!!"

Ain't no stoppin' us now. We got the groove!

by Fan Since 1981 on Jun 18, 2007 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Answers

Robb Quinlan, or Vlad with Haynes/Evans getting some time in the field.
A slightly damaged Ronan Tynan CD? An empty soda can? Who cares, just as long as Shea is off the team.

If I went to war and could only take one weapon, it would be an HK47.

by RallyMonkey5 on Jun 18, 2007 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Shea has the possibility of power

Haynes does not. That would mean singles-hitters at DH, 3B and LF. We're riding high in June, but that's not a recipe for success in October.

Also, if Quinlan's DHing against lefties, Kotchman is starting against pitchers he doesn't hit well against.

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions

I agree

Unfortunately, unless the team is going to bring in a big bat DH / LF, we should keep Shea. He's exactly the king of veteran with some pop that we need to PH and fill in on ocassion for DH / 1b.

What the team really needs to do, but will not, is to realize that GA is only fit to be a part time DH at this point in his career and bring in a big bat to play DH and the corner outfield spots.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

king = kind

The word I typed should never come close to Shea's name.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Not to disagree with myself

but Rivera could be that DH / corner outfielder.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Kendry

I'd be happy with Kendry DHing, then seeing how Rivera does over sticking with Hillendbrand.

by Ty Webb on Jun 18, 2007 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions

Kendry

is not ready. He has been up and shown he isn't ready. I'd much rather have him in AAA working on his hitting than sitting on the bench with the big club. Why sit Kendry on the bench and stall his progress?

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions

He'd play

Instead of Hillenbrand. Kendry couldn't do ANY WORSE than Shea, and IMO, would hit better.

by Ty Webb on Jun 18, 2007 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions

I would prefer

To fully embrace National League baseball and not have a DH than give one more AB to Shea.

His greatest contribution to yesterday's game was that he hit a groundball too softly to be an inning killing DP. I'd prefer Haynes even if he doesn't have power. I really don't care how a batter puts runs on the scoreboard, just as long as they do. Haynes might be able to hit .300 and keep innings going. Hillenbrand can't even get on base at .300. I can live without the 15-20 homer power he might show to get rid of all the outs he makes.

If I went to war and could only take one weapon, it would be an HK47.

by RallyMonkey5 on Jun 18, 2007 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions

Concur

As much as all or most of us pile on Shea, the truth of the matter is that he is still one more piece of the puzzle which adds to our depth. Not to regurgitate akathelorax, but come playoff time, his ML experience will be timely.

So far, all of out pre and early season bitching about various players, coaches, and management has all but proven to be wrong. And I for one, will gladly continue to eat crow while the Halos roll on to the playoffs due to the depth of the team.

Besides, should the Halos continue winning and playing Scioscia's brand of ball, the less we will have to give up for a big bat come the trade deadline because we will not be in that "desperate" situation.

Come these next 3 series at home, the Angels better clean up and distance themselves from the rest of division and take off some of the pressure down the stretch should they encounter a few bumps in the road.

Go Halos !

"Somewhere in suckass Arizona smokin' tumblweeds"

by Rex DaKine Budler on Jun 18, 2007 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions

You ignored the Evans possibility

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions

The Yanks are desparate

They are playing Cairo at 1B, so they really need an upgrade.

I don't care who DH's, I am convinced Shea can't do it. (He may hit better when playing the field) Resting Vlad there and splitting the rest of the starts between Nipples, and the AAA crew is fine with me.
Any minor leaguer will do fine, especially if it's anyone the Angels scouts have the slightest interest in. On top of that we may have to pay some of Shea's salary, which I think is just fine.

by elricsi on Jun 18, 2007 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Desperate, yes

but not so desperate that they'll give us Phil Hughes. If they are, I'm down with that. (Not that I think they're that dumb/desperate, but.)

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jun 18, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions

easy

Q, Morales, Aybar, more more DH ABs for Vlad.
Whoever.

by scotbox on Jun 18, 2007 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions

I don't like giving ABs to "whoever"

Aybar? He's hitting .245/.289/.273. He'd be one of the worst DHs in the history of baseball. As bad as Shea's been, he's hit better than that this year, and has a track record of hitting .280/.320/.440. Quinlan's career stats against RHP is .279/.319/.387. Morales is hitting .288/.322/.360 in Triple-A. That projects brutally in the bigs.

Look, I like to hate on the guy as much as anybody, but unless he's a clubhouse cancer, trading him for a hot-dog wrapper hurts the club.

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions

Again- Evans?

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions

6-1 k/bb ratio in AAA, l-o-n-g swing

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions

So what?

He's got power, he can hit for average. Shea does neither right now, and at this point in the season, there's not much reason to expect that to change.

Personally though, I'm all for setting Q loose at DH. Let's give HIM 100 consistent ABs, the way we did DaVannon, Finley, and Hillenbrand, and see what he does with them. He certainly didn't disappoint last time we gave him that chance (2004).

Kotch getting a shot to take on lefties is only a good thing, IMO. He's actually put up better stats against lefties than Hillenbrand this year, so why not?

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions

He's hit for average and power

in the minor leagues in hitter friendly parks against younger competition.

NOT THE SAME THING.

He's at least as big a question mark as anyone else in the organization and a lesser bet to produce for this team than Shea Hillenbrand.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jun 18, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions

At this point

I disagree. We could give ANYONE in this organization a shot, and it would be a better choice than giving more ABs to Hillenbrand, who has been a waste of space this season. There is no reason to expect that to change either. Yesterday at the plate he looked no more improved than any other day this season.

Terry Evans may be "older" than the competition, but so was Willits last year. That doesn't change or alter that he's done well, and that it's likely he'd be better than what Hillenbrand has done for us so far.

Terry Evans is really only the "what if someone else gets injured" answer though. Right now, my solution is Q at DH, let Kotch hit against lefties.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions

And here I'd read that crack smoking

was on the decline. I digress.

You're actually trying to convince people that an "Old for a prospect" AAA guy with only a 3 pitch strikeout to his credit in the way of ML experience is more likely to produce than a 31 year old veteran with just under 3,500 ML at bats and a career .285 average/.442 slugging?

You are a true gem.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jun 18, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Your ad-hominem attacks are truly devestating

to my self-esteem, but you continue to ignore the main thrust of my argument, which is that Quinlan and Kotch could more than replace Hillenbrand at this point.

As far as the "too old for a prospect" player Terry Evans, I definitely feel he has more to offer than the 31 year old who has not held his weight in any form this year, and shows absolutely no signs of improving. After 200 PA, it's time to give someone else a chance, especially if that chance will be primarily 4th outfielder/backup DH related.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions

What does Q and Kotch have to do with

the "Thrust" of your argument? You contend that Evans is a better alternative than Shea simply based on the fact that he hasn't had a chance to suck yet?

The very fact that Hillenbrand is "backup DH" means that if he doesn't improve his negative impact would be minimal. If he starts to produce however, he's already proven and paid for.

I never said Evans was "Too old" just "Old for a prospect".

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jun 18, 2007 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Q and Kotch being a better alternative

to Hillenbrand at DH was the main point of the post you responded to. Evans is simply a player who can fill the role Hillenbrand would play in that scenario perfectly well and quite likely better than Hillenbrand would.

I contend that Evans is a better alternative at backup DH because he hasn't been given a chance to do anything yet, whether that be suck or succeed. Hillenbrand has had 200 PA to make his choice on the subject, and it hasn't been the one I'd want.

The fact that the backup DH will have minimal impact whether successful or a failure is actually my point. Since it won't have much effect either way, we take the opportunity to see what the kid's got. At the very least, we'll get someone who has something to prove and not someone who feels his spot in the lineup is a god-given right.

We paid for a proven major leaguer, but I haven't seen any evidence that the current incarnation of Shea Hillenbrand is that person, and he's had opportunity after opportunity to do so.

As far as too old vs old I'm not sure what the difference is, but frankly, which one you think Evans is doesn't really matter to me. He's produced in the minors, we have an opportunity to provide him a chance to prove himself at little to no cost to ourselves, so why not take it? The 6 million we spent on Hillenbrand is gone either way, so let's take the path which at least tells us something about a potential high-end run producer. If he doesn't work out, we haven't lost any PA's we were making good use of before anyway.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Kotch

Last time I heard, Kotchman was busy being our full time (minus a few starts against lefties) first baseman.

This team has the second best record in either league...we are not rebuilding. Hillenbrand had started to hit until being squeezed out of the lineup.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Arte... is that you?

by melvintoast on Jun 18, 2007 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree he's our starting first baseman

What I mean by "Kotch and Q" replacing Hillenbrand is that Q becomes fulltime DH. Since Q's fulltime DH, Kotch effectively gets the AB's Hillenbrand used to get against Lefites, while Q gets those against righties.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions

wow

just when the Yanks were starting to turn it around. Old George is really losing his marbles

I still want to DFA Hillenbrand

by Hutch (someone took my name) on Jun 18, 2007 9:59 AM PDT reply actions

Deal

An autographed picture of Jeter for Shea

by edhoo on Jun 18, 2007 10:05 AM PDT reply actions

there's an ass for every seat

my dad had a used car lot for years and he would get some of the biggest piece of crap cars which i had no idea how they would sell. but he would tell me, "son, there's as an ass for every seat." and sure enough somebody would buy the car. the yankees might be the ass for hillenbrands seat.

by thejd on Jun 18, 2007 10:23 AM PDT reply actions

Are you Cal Worthington Jr.?

by Rev Halofan on Jun 18, 2007 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Rev...

You crack me up!!!! Hilarious.

by SactoFan on Jun 18, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions

I think he's "Spot"

'86 never happened!

by Downing Rules on Jun 20, 2007 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Um, do it

I don't care if it's for cash. Sweet - Shea could pay for Big Bang Fridays for the rest of the season.

by NPCody on Jun 18, 2007 10:50 AM PDT reply actions

I'd take the cryogenically-dismembered Ted

Williams as our DH over Hillenbrand anyday. Too bad we can't ask his "agent," Ted Jr., if we can sign him.

by PieceOfAase on Jun 18, 2007 10:51 AM PDT reply actions

Q against lefties Hefty Molina against rightys

Or Nap if it's a day game when Jose is catching.

by melvintoast on Jun 18, 2007 11:19 AM PDT reply actions

Brutal

Molina's career against RHP: .223/.260/.300
Kotchman's career against LHP: .228/.322/.258

Hillenbrand's career against all: .285/.322/.442

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Shea isn't batting .285 this year. If he was

we wouldn't be having this conversation.

by melvintoast on Jun 18, 2007 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions

Since May 17

He is 18 for 59 = .306 BA with a .338 OBP and 2 HR.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah butt since May 19th

He's batting .269 with .309 OBP. <P>
Molina is batting .333 with a .357 OBP.

by melvintoast on Jun 18, 2007 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Molina

Molina has 27 AB in that time period. And, of course if you take out a couple games here and there you can make the numbers say anything you want.

The bottom line is that Hillenbrand is hitting better as of late and is hitting a lot closer to his career averages than he was at the start of the season.

by akathelorax @ Halos Heaven on Jun 18, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions

He's a bit young to fall off the cliff

He'll almost certainly hit better, and -- most importantly -- even his crappy hitting so far this year is better than every proposed alternative, with the possible exception of calling up Kendry to enjoy the warm-weather months.

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions

No, it isn't. By a wide margin, actually.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Go ahead and name your example

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh, I see

Some kind of combination of Quinlan and Willits, is it?

OK, if it's Quinlan full time than what you are replacing Hillenbrand with is effectively Q against righties, Krotch against lefties.

Kotchman's career against LHP: .228/.322/.258
Quinlan's career against RHP: .279/.319/.387
Presuming a 70/30 platoon: .264/.320/.348
Hillenbrand's crappy season: .246/.269/.324

So I misspoke -- this proposed alternative would be somewhat better than how Hillenbrand has hit this year, though still crappy as hell and far worse than Shea's lifetime stats of .285/.322/.442.

I can't find Terry Evans' MLEs at the moment....

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions

You keep quoting career numbers

like they mean something as far as what's happening right now. Career numbers did not save Steve Finley, and I haven't seen any evidence they're going to save Hillenbrand.

Meanwhile, Casey's stats against Lefties are largely based on limited PA against them the last four seasons. They aren't any more indicative of his capabilities against lefties, than his current career total averages of .269 .343 .426 .769 are indicative that this year is a fluke. He's 24 and still capable of improving.

Q's Career Average against Righties is pretty much identical to Hillenbrand's career average against righties once you factor in that Q has spent his whole career in a pitcher's park, while Hillenbrand has spent most of his career in hitters parks.

Further, Q's career averages against righties are again a function of his limited playing time against them, as both seasons he saw 100+ PA against them he put up perfectly respectable numbers.

Finally, there's the fact that Hillenbrand this season has done nothing to demonstrate he's capable of putting up his career average stats, and I fail to see why we should give him further opportunity to do so after 200 PA.

Evans MLE's can be found on Baseball Prospectus

Last year's numbers at AA Ark translate as .278 .338 .495 .833

At AA SFD they translate as .295 .333 .603 .936

For this year they have not been calculated yet, but I suspect they'd resemble his Arkansas line.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

If Evans slugs .600 I'll eat your hat

Career numbers did not save Steve Finley, and I haven't seen any evidence they're going to save Hillenbrand.

Hillenbrand's a 31-year-old DH. Finley was 40, trying to play a demanding defensive position. Hillenbrand has been a very consistent, with no obvious/serious pattern of decline -- he's been within 9% of league average offensive production each of the past five years.

You quote career numbers because, depending on how old & consistent & injured a guy is, they tell you more about a guy's likely production than a two-month slump. Pujols & Abreu & Howard were not likely to have been as bad they were in April and May, and so they aren't.

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes

But those guys have all shown signs of improvement. Hillenbrand largely has not. And I said I suspect Evans'd resemble his ARK numbers, which was the first set. Slugging .495 doesn't seem impossible for someone with his resume.

I'll also note that Hillenbrand has been hitting this way ever since he left Toronto. The only difference between now and his time in SF is that his power has degraded even more. His OBP and BA there are almost identical to what he's put up this season. So he's been hitting this way for almost a year now. Whatever's wrong started before he came here.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions

so

after tonight what do ya think?

by CaLiKrAzY on Jun 18, 2007 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions

I've been wrong before. >_>

I don't root against people just because they're going to prove me wrong. If Hillenbrand proves he's turning it around in the space before Kotch gets back, then so be it. ;)

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Last night was the first Shea looked good

He was putting good swings on everything. No harm in riding his hot streak & waiting for Rivera before we deal him to the Yanks.

by mattwelch on Jun 19, 2007 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Of course...

I've been RIGHT before too. 1st hit, 1st homer, plus a key walk. Not bad for a first ML start.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 20, 2007 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Anybody but Shea

First I have to admit that I have found out that Shea has actually hit much better as a DH up to 2006, maybe the Angels saw that and hoped it would continue.

Second, I'm sure the suggestion to DH Molina against RHP was a joke. I don't rememeber ever seeing a worse hitter versus RHP (among real MLB position players).

Third, I meant Haynes, Evans, and Murphy as the AAA boys to try out at DH. They might all bomb, but one of them could turn out well. Also, I believe CK will eventually hit LHP OK with enough practice.

by elricsi on Jun 18, 2007 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Haynes and Murphy will never have power

DHs need to hit home runs, especially on this team.

by mattwelch on Jun 18, 2007 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Shea for A-Rod

Do it Stoneman!!!

</sarcasm>

by anaheimisnotla on Jun 18, 2007 12:39 PM PDT reply actions

Do it.

Make Quinnie the DH. We know he kills lefties and there is this myth that he sucks against righties. He does not.

by Higz on Jun 18, 2007 12:42 PM PDT reply actions

Agreed

Give Q his shot till Rivera gets back. If nothing else, he cannot possibly do a worse job than Shea has. I firmly believe he will be much better.

As far as Kotch playing against lefties in that situation, so much the better. Either Kotch is a franchise player, or he's Brad Fulmer with great 1B Defense skills. It's time to find out which one.

~Till the Halo burns out...

by Zu Long on Jun 18, 2007 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Dr. Quin, Medicine Man

He has the cure.

by Higz on Jun 18, 2007 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions

How long until Juan Rivera is back?

Once he returns, Shea will be even more useless.

by bc56274 on Jun 18, 2007 12:51 PM PDT reply actions

Late July/Early August

is my guess. If we get lucky, the All-Star break (ooh, don't say "break"!).

Ervin Santana To AAA! (But only for road games.)

by scareduck on Jun 18, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions

The question isn't so much when do we get

Juan Rivera back. It's when will Juan Rivera actually produce at a level resembling Juan Rivera? My guess is late August at best.

DarkAngel hath spoken....

by darkangel01 on Jun 18, 2007 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Rivera looks in the mirror

As to when will Rivera be producing at Rivera-like numbers: next year.

He had an extremely complicated fracture of his leg and although he may be able to play ball decently the fear in his head will take a while to clear before he goes full bore without hesitation, concern for his leg, or fear of losing his livelihood.

by SactoFan on Jun 18, 2007 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions

rivera is always a slow starter

it takes him a couple hundred ab's to get going. i think by the time he feels right and gets his swing going it'll be too late. i'm not counting on him for anything this season.

by thejd on Jun 18, 2007 1:53 PM PDT reply actions

Okay

Hillenbrand + Figgins for ARod...

anybody with me?

I messed with Texas!

by Los Angeles de Anaheim on Jun 18, 2007 2:14 PM PDT reply actions

Throw in mathis d-mac and colon.

by melvintoast on Jun 18, 2007 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Hillenbrand, Fig, Colon.

Tell me the River Boat Gambler Stoneman can't do it.

All the NY media may be wrong, but they ALL believe ARod will bolt at the end of the season, leaving NYY with DRAFT PICKS.

THIS WAY they get an experienced AL East 1B, speedy switch hitting 3B, and a damaged-but-saleable Cy Young winner.

The way I see it, IF the NYY are to trade Arod, they have four alternatives other than the Angels:

LA Dodgers (who?)....(scariest possibility)
Chicago Cubs (ARam? + who...??)
Chicago White Sox (who?)
Florida Marlins (trade for MCab...don't think so.)

Maybe Stoneman can be talked into a fourth body although he had consistently said he would not (poker player?). If so, maybe Bulger.

I've stated before that ARod probably would not be coming to LAA of A. However, the Devil's Advocate in me, searching for a way to make it happen, creates the above scenario.

by wumbug on Jun 18, 2007 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions